Topic: Elaine's Tea Jar - ID please

[Elaine]

My first 'real' post! 

I have quite a few items of oriental pottery, inherited from a great-aunt who traveled in the east and lived for a while in Siam (as it was then).  This tea jar however has strange markings on the base, which don't look very oriental to me   

It has a little woman on one side, with a pug dog on a lead, and a little man on the other side.  Both of them look somewhat odd, rather as if they are an oriental artist's idea of what English people should look like.  (I'm using the little woman as my avatar - not that she looks like me or anything ...... 

Here's a few pics - hope this works as it's my first attempt! 
 

[Elaine]

I posted this tea jar in the 'Oriental' forum, but suddenly I'm not sure     (after my previous wrong assumptions were so kindly corrected by Martyn - 'nk you  )

The mark on the base doesn't look at all Oriental to me, and maybe I was wrong in thinking that the people were an Oriental artist's idea of how English people should look.  Maybe they are an English artist's idea of how Oriental people would look?    So I'm putting a couple of pics here, too. 

[Lustrousstone]

I would speculate perhaps Dutch and probably older than you think. See this link about pugs

[Martyn]

This is'nt my area but...

I think Elaine is right in that this is'nt Chinese, it looks European maybe Dutch or British? The monogram on the bottom has an 'A' in it perhaps 'E' 'L' or 'G' the decoration looks very western and I think made to look 'oriental' for the home market rather than the other way around. The Oriental look has come in and out of fashion in Europe for centuries so I've no idea when it might have been made but think it should be moved to the main ID section to get more exposure.

JMHO.

[Elaine]

Thank you, Christine.  That's fascinating!  I think it does look as if it could well be Dutch then.  But how old is old?  The base does have an early look to it to me.  And the costumes of the figures look early, although that could be artistic license 

[Lustrousstone]

I found this link where No 83 on page 4 looked vaguely promising

Anne Can you find the index page for these useful pages. I wanted to add it to the links but can't seem to find it. Maybe They'll have to be added a set at a time

[Elaine]

Wow!  That's an amazing site, Christine!  Well done  and thank you 

The mark on my jar certainly looks similar in style to no. 83 - maybe more like a combination of 83 and 84? - But those are OLD!!!!    Do we really think my tea jar could be that sort of age?  How would it be possible to tell?

[Lustrousstone]

I don't know, we need an expert, but your Aunt seems to have been a discerning lady and it has that naive look. There's a Tea Museum in London www.teaandcoffeemuseum.co.uk/, which might be worth an email. Equally, we could be barking up the wrong shrub, it could a be a tobacco jar (Yeh I know tobacco isn't a shrub)

[Elaine]

You're right, of course.  I always thought of it as a tea jar in the same way that I thought of it as Oriental.  Chinese equals tea, you see!  Doh!     However, my great-aunt did smoke, (although mainly cigars or cheroots) so it could indeed have been a tobacco jar! 

How would one tell the difference between a tea jar and a tobacco jar?

[David]

Size. I think a tobacco jar would be smaller? A snuff bottle would be even smaller and fit in the hand.

edit

[Lustrousstone]

"In size they range from a mere four inches to commanding figures more than a foot in height." from http://www.journalofantiques.com/featursept.htm. Admittedly talking about figural tobacco jars but...

How big is your jar Elaine?

[David]

Just thinking aloud, but wouldn't a tea jar have a much wider aperture? But yes, knowing the size would help get it into proportion

[Tigerchips]

I'm no expert with Delft but I believe if this was old it would be extremely rare as early Delft usually has glaze chips on the edges.

I have seen a few fake items from China and they usually have dirt on the base rim which is usually painted on or has had some kind of treatment.

[Elaine]

Hi, Tiger!  Well, although it doesn't have chips as such, the jar is certainly quite 'crazed' (not unlike its owner!  Hahaha  ) inside.

I noticed this when I got my torch and had a look, and it's quite stained brown inside.  Of course, I presume either tea   or tobacco would do that, so it doesn't really help     

Christine; It's 5 inches high and the diameter of the opening is just 1 and 1/4 inches.  However, I have noticed in my researches that tea jars do have quite surprisingly small apertures. 

David; I do have a bottle which I think might be a snuff bottle.  It's smaller than the 'tea' / 'tobacco' jar.  I'll post it on the Oriental forum later. 

Thanks again to everyone for their contributions