Author Topic: Is this a watch fob? (Read 15645 times)

Anne · « **on:** April 15, 2008, 01:35:14 AM »

I'm puzzled by this thing - it's made from two coins connected together and between the coins are two hinged tools: a nail file and a pair of scissors. It has a chain which can be slipped through a slot in the ring near the coins to form a loop.

I can't find any clue as to who made it or when, the coins are French and dated 1837. Any thoughts about its use or origin welcome.

Sue C · « **Reply #1 on:** April 15, 2008, 09:01:07 AM »

Any marks on the chain Anne?

Anne · « **Reply #2 on:** April 15, 2008, 06:21:00 PM »

There's a sort of elongated diamond shape on the bar in the middle of the chain but it's so small that even with the magnifier I can't tell if there's anything in it. Other than that, nothing Sue.

Tigerchips · « **Reply #3 on:** April 15, 2008, 08:05:38 PM »

I can see a diamond on your coin?

This one isn't marked but it says it's silver....
FRANCE-1837-W-5-Francs-LOUIS-PHILIPPE-I-on-SILVER coin

It could be a makers mark...
http://www.925-1000.com/Ffrench_marks.html

Anne · « **Reply #4 on:** April 15, 2008, 10:03:02 PM »

Well-spotted TC, I'd not realised the diamonds on the side were not original marks. I also found two more marks which are on this but not on the original coins. That's the good news! Now the bad news is they are sooooo small I really can't make out what they are even with the magnifier - see pics attached - this is about as good as they get!

chopin-liszt · « **Reply #5 on:** April 16, 2008, 09:36:41 AM »

I know no-oooothing, as the saying goes, but this is my tuppence worth.

I'm sure, at least in the uk, that there are laws about defacing legal tender, so if that applies to France too, this should have been made after the coins ceased to be legal tender, unless it doesn't matter about french coins over here.

The tools look to be made of steel, perhaps it is a watch fob - or a key-ring?

Anne · « **Reply #6 on:** April 16, 2008, 02:26:33 PM »

Hiya Sue, good to see you back, how are you doing?

I'd not thought about defacing currency but now you mention it, it rings a bell. I wonder how I can find out when they ceased to be legal tender?

You're right about the tools, they are steel we think, and looking at the end of the file nearest the coin we've found another mark! It's a small circle with the word DEPOSE in it. (DEPOSE means PATENTED in France I'm sure) so the whole thing may have been made in France. It came to me along with an auction lot of coins, stamps etc we bought years ago.

Sue C · « **Reply #7 on:** April 16, 2008, 04:43:57 PM »

Anne, i have had a number of brooches marked Depose, a french company i think?

Sue C · « **Reply #8 on:** April 16, 2008, 04:51:21 PM »

Just had a thought, if the coin was being made into a piece of jewellery it might have to pass through the assay office to determine the Silver content, as with any precious metal jewellery ? $:-\$

What do you think??

Lustrousstone · « **Reply #9 on:** April 16, 2008, 05:11:10 PM »

I've looked Depose up int' French dictionary where it seems it can be connected to either trademarked or patented

Anne · « **Reply #10 on:** April 16, 2008, 05:23:48 PM »

I'm sure I recall someone on the GMB saying it means Patented. Let me check...

... yep here it is: http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,8490.msg71318.html#msg71318 - Marinka says "... marked either 'Depose' or 'Geschutzt' - patented." (French or German respectively.)

chopin-liszt · « **Reply #11 on:** April 17, 2008, 11:18:16 AM »

Anne, thanks!

I'm diddling away slowly, as usual. Trying to get myself ready for the onslaught of The Art Glass Fair, so I can bounce all day!

I think any coin would have had it's exact silver content measured when it was franked - was that not really a substitute for hallmarking?

Lustrousstone · « **Reply #12 on:** April 17, 2008, 12:17:07 PM »

Any silver that's imported or altered should go through the assay office I think.

Anne · « **Reply #13 on:** April 17, 2008, 10:52:46 PM »

From looking at the link TC gave me I think the diamond mark is a French silver mark rather than an English one. I suspect it was made into a fob of some kind in France, and probably came back with someone. I need to find when these coins came out of circulation and that will give me a starting point. Any suggestions how to find that out?

Sue, I hope the Art Glass Fair goes really well and that you don't get too tired. I just wish I could get there but it's Tech Rehearsal day so I'm not able to escape.

josordoni · « **Reply #14 on:** April 20, 2008, 11:43:31 AM »

Hi Anne, this is my favourite site for international silver marks...

http://www.925-1000.com/Ffrench_marks.html

It looks as though your diamond may be the makers mark, there should be a little oval somewhere (not necessarily anywhere near the diamond) with the head of Minerva which is the equivalent of our Lion passant.

josordoni · « **Reply #15 on:** April 20, 2008, 11:44:26 AM »

Oh just realised that is the same link as TC's second one... but it is a very good site, so just take this as a seconding....!

Anne · « **Reply #16 on:** April 20, 2008, 02:21:27 PM »

Hi Lynne, thank you. Yes there is another tiny mark but it's so small I can't make it out even with the magnifier. It's in the bottom pic above at the very bottom between the two leaves directly below the upside down 5 - it's a sort of oval with a raised bit in it. Does that look like Minerva?

Ray · « **Reply #17 on:** July 18, 2008, 08:28:44 PM »

more than likely Anne it's off a chatelaine

forgot to say the diamond mark is the maker and the other will be the wild boars head, will have a look on my french silver and take some photo's

Ray · « **Reply #18 on:** July 18, 2008, 08:57:30 PM »

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/yorkshirebob/Picture106.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/yorkshirebob/Picture109.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/yorkshirebob/Picture014.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/yorkshirebob/Picture034.jpg

the top one is a makers mark
2nd is the Minerva head for 950 silver
3rd is the wild boars head and a makers mark
4th is the Minerva head for 800 silver

Anne · « **Reply #19 on:** July 19, 2008, 01:45:00 PM »

Ohhh good, thanks Ray. I'm going to try and get some better pics of the marks now Barry has his new camera with super macro mode - the previous camera wasn't powerful enough to see more than shown further up this topic. If I can get better shots we may be able to ID those marks.