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Author Topic: Chinese Tripod Censer With Flambe/ Yaobian type Glaze & Unusual Lion Masks  (Read 7634 times)

Offline Mosquito

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I recently acquired this unusual Chinese tripod censer. The shape is quite traditional, but I'm having trouble figuring out the age & exact origin, though it is certainly not a modern repro. The masks on the side are particularly interesting & I've never seen masks of this style before. The paste is a greyish brown colour, the glaze is predominantly brown with streaks of blue throughout. The feet are also moulded with a mask or similar, though the details are difficult to make out.

There are more photos in my Flickr set here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/kingofbananas/sets/72157623657702984/

Thanks,
Steven

Offline keith

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You could try the 'Asian art forum,takes a few days but lots of Oriental experts,that is unless somebody here already knows,
                                                                   Keith.

Offline Mosquito

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Hi Keith,

Thanks so much for the suggestion, the Asian art forum looks fascinating - a great new way to waste time in addition to the GMB & Pottery forums....  ;) I'll post it there & see what turns up.

Thanks again,

Steven

Offline antiquerose123

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Hi Keith,

Thanks so much for the suggestion, the Asian art forum looks fascinating - a great new way to waste time in addition to the GMB & Pottery forums....  ;) I'll post it there & see what turns up.

Thanks again,

Steven


lol......So Many Forums, so little time.  ;D   And SO many items to figure it.  I understand you too Steven.  Think of us as Researchers.....lol

Chinese things are tough because the letters are SO hard to decipher what they are....with a slight mark here, and there in the writing.

Very nice piece   :clap: :clap:
Every flower that has ever bloomed, had to go through a whole lot of DIRT FIRST......:flowers2:      
antiquerose123 (Rose) :rse:  

Offline Mosquito

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Chinese things are tough because the letters are SO hard to decipher what they are....with a slight mark here, and there in the writing.
Very nice piece   :clap: :clap:

Hi Rose, I've no problem reading Chinese marks, I know a little Chinese & if I don't recognise the character I can always ask my 老婆 (she's from China).... The problem is, with Chinese pieces, they rarely are what they say they are  ;)

Anyway, here's the thread on the Asian Art Forum: http://www.asianart.com/phpforum/index.php?method=detailAll&Id=42910#42910

Steven :)

Offline antiquerose123

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Thanks Mosquito for that Link.  I find them very hard to read when trying to figure things out -- BUT what do I know, nothing...lol

Glad to hear that you know Chinese  :clap2: as you are totally appreciated for that.  We need people like you that can help us that have such a hard time figuring these types of things out.

So Glad you ABOARD HERE  :cheerleader: :cheerleader:
Every flower that has ever bloomed, had to go through a whole lot of DIRT FIRST......:flowers2:      
antiquerose123 (Rose) :rse:  

Offline olesparkleyes

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Re: Chinese Tripod Censer With Flambe/ Yaobian type Glaze & Unusual Lion Masks
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2012, 09:44:55 AM »
Hello everyone
I'm confused. Are there marks on this piece ? I don't see any in the photos !

I love the iridescent blue glaze over the brown and the primitive decor and the overall shape.
BUT I'm afraid it doesn't look Chinese or old to me.
If any serious age I'd expect to see some wear, perhaps some tiny nibbles on the edges of the feet or some staining inside. Instead it looks perfect.

Did you get any responses from the Asian Art Forum? I don't see any but maybe they don#t appear to non-members ?
Peter


Offline Mosquito

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Re: Chinese Tripod Censer With Flambe/ Yaobian type Glaze & Unusual Lion Masks
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2012, 11:20:09 AM »
Hi,

Thanks for reviving this thread. Sadly I never seemed to get any response on The Asian Art Forum, but then that's not entirely surprising as it does appear to be quite an unusual piece.

There are no marks on the item, however I am in no doubt whatsoever that it is Chinese. Likewise I know it isn't new. It photographs well, however there is fine random wear to the glaze, and the unglazed interior and feet show a great deal of discolouration from dirt and use over the years. One of the feet has also been off and re-stuck at some point in the past. If you look at the interior shot that I posted on the Flickr set, you can see some of the discolouration. The cleaner areas of the feet show that the clay is actually a fairly light, almost buff colour, however the interior is blackened from use and dirt (these photos were taken after a thorough clean and the removal of much accumulated grime).

I believe the absolute latest it is likely to be is Republic era, though I suspect it is older than that. I have made contact with a collector in the Wenzhou area and hope to get his opinion on the piece the next time I am back there.

The piece is in a type of earthenware rather than porcelain - sadly most of my reference books only cover porcelain, which is another reason why I have found it hard to research. It's also been hand built rather than thrown. Hand built earthenware vessels have been made at the Shiwan kilns for centuries, and flambe glazes were certainly used there, so that looks like a promising area. Likewise Yixing may also be a possibility. Until recently I'd only associated Yixing with red or purple clay teapots, however glazed jun-style wares were also produced. At present I think Shiwan is most likely, however.

Offline olesparkleyes

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Re: Chinese Tripod Censer With Flambe/ Yaobian type Glaze & Unusual Lion Masks
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2012, 01:36:28 PM »
Thank you. The piece is now much more understandable to me.

What was confusing me is that I had a Victorian English piece in similar colours. Now I realise the reason is simply that a similar firing technique was used.
I had always associated flambe with deep, rich red or purple colours but now I see that's not necessarily the case.
Here is a piece in a similar colourway
http://www.nadeausauction.com/lotdetails/?lot=16807
attributed by the auctioneer as 18th century.

and another as late 19th or 20th C
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/10061545

I notice that both show crazing which I believe is caused by the low temperature of a reduction kiln.
Neither have the unusual modelling of yours.

Here is something with a modelled (applied ?) mask
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Yixing-Chinese-Pottery-Teapot-Tea-Pot-Warmer-w-Impressed-Mark-/200707037819?pt=Asian_Antiques&hash=item2ebb125a7b#ht_500wt_1284

Peter


Offline antiquerose123

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Re: Chinese Tripod Censer With Flambe/ Yaobian type Glaze & Unusual Lion Masks
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2012, 10:51:08 PM »
Hi there:

Is there *blue* in the under-glaze?  just wondering??

 ;)
Every flower that has ever bloomed, had to go through a whole lot of DIRT FIRST......:flowers2:      
antiquerose123 (Rose) :rse:  

Offline Mosquito

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Re: Chinese Tripod Censer With Flambe/ Yaobian type Glaze & Unusual Lion Masks
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2012, 12:57:03 AM »
Hi Peter, thanks for the links,

The vase in the first link is superficially similar, but probably not from the same source as it is in porcelain and is a more complex piece with multiple glazes. I also have a porcelain flambe gourd vase of the type typically catalogued as 18th-19th century. While the colours are very similar, looking at it closely the technical differences can be seen. Porcelain flambe vases usually have had multiple firings and several glazes; typically a plain white glaze to the interior and a 'cafe au lait' glaze to the base in addition to the exterior flambe finish. This censer is much simpler with its earthenware or stoneware body and unglazed interior and feet.

The piece in the second link looks interesting. I can't make out the foot so clearly, but it does look like it might be on an stoneware body. The colours remind me of a pottery toad I had a while ago which was attributed to Shiwan.

The final, supposedly Yixing piece is nice to see as it does have a nice applied lion mask. However, I had to smile when I read the description. The seller is calling it antique when it is in fact a fairly new piece as shown by the simplified '国'. The mark is a little interesting as it reads '中国云南' (China Yunnan), albeit with a non-simplified '云'!  If it is really from Yunnan that is interesting as these red clay wares are almost invariably attributed to Yixing in Jiangsu Province.

Rose, as far as I'm aware, the blue is caused by metals which cause the colour changes within the glaze during the firing process. I think I'm right in saying there's no under-glaze blue colour on this piece, but my more technical reference books are packed away, so I might have to revise this theory later!

Steven

Offline Mosquito

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Re: Chinese Tripod Censer With Flambe/ Yaobian type Glaze & Unusual Lion Masks
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2012, 01:09:40 AM »
I've been looking further into Shiwan wares; not so easy as my books don't include a great deal about the output of the Shiwan kilns. However, on the V&A site, I've found the following which tend to support my hypothesis that this is indeed a Shiwan piece:

http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O187738/incense-burner/
http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O187682/vase/
http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O187683/vase/

 

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